[SmokeyHugh]

OK, I'll admit, I know absolutely nothing about DCC. Well, I know that it (is ment to) allow independant control of engines, but thats it.

First off, aside from buying engines that already have DCC fitted and fitting it your self, can you have the company fit the DCC for you (i.e Hornby)? I'm ok at soldering wires and such, but when it comes to fixing something very small and fiddely on to something very small and fragile thats worth about 50quid, I'm not going to try. So, if I asked Hornby (or another company) would they do it for me? I won't be able to ask my local stockist for some time and I don't have the phone number, nor does my telephone book for some strange reason. Another reason that I won't try it is due to me deciding I could fix a problem on an engine myself....I made it worse -from simply stop-starting, my pug didn't move at all, but did make some interesting smells and sounds.
Secondly, can DC and DCC work together? I know that I need to get the correct controler for DCC, but could I have a DCC work along side a DC with out any problems?
Are different decoders required for different locos?
And finally, are the following engines DCC friendly? The Hornby 0-4-0st (class Y9 04, "smokey joe"), Dapol/Hornby 0-4-0st class-21 pug, 0-6-0 Class 08 ? I'd like to fit them with R8246 Mini Sapphire Decoder as it seems to sound like the thing I need for industial engines and shunting. What controller would I need for this decoder?
Thanks,
S.H

[poliss]

Hornby won't fit decoders for you, but there are plenty of companies that will. Take a look at the ones in this link. http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/categorie ... g_Services I don't know if the Wakefield Model and Craft Centre is your local shop, but their phone No. is 01924 374097. Website here. https://vault1.secured-url.com/model/

Second question, DCC locos run fine on a DC layout, but not DC locos on a DCC layout. All DCC decoders work in the same way, but some, mainly older locos need more powerful decoders than the standard Hornby one.
The Smokey Joe is not very DCC friendly, but it is possible to fit a decoder in it. See the Hornby DCC fitting guides here. http://www.hornby.com/digital/dcc-insta ... 7,HAR.html
Other guides can be found on the Bromsgrove Models website here. http://www.bromsgrovemodels.co.uk/decod ... ion4mm.htm

As far as I know, the Mini Sapphire hasn't been released yet. The new Hornby R8249 should be ok for the locos you want to convert, but check before you buy. You should buy the best controller that you can afford. The Hornby Elite is much better than the Select.

All DCC equipment works on the same principal. The National Model Railroad Association (NMRA) awards warrants when a piece of DCC equipment submitted to them meets the standards.

[Rog (RJ)]

As far as I know, Hornby don't fit decoders for individual customers. (they might if your name was Elizabeth II ) It's a case of buying DCC fitted or fitting your own decoder to a DCC ready loco or to a non DCC loco. (or getting someone to do it for you)

In the case of DCC ready it's really quite simple. Remove body, remove DCC blanking plug, plug decoder in, test run, if all OK re-fit body, enjoy!

Can dc and DCC work together? Yes and no. You cannot have a dc controller and a DCC controller connected at the same time but it is usually quite simple to have a changeover switch to choose between the two, or you could disconnect one and then connect the other.

It is possible to have a dc loco running under control of some DCC controllers, though not recommended. The reason being that dc locos make a horrible buzzing, squealing noise due to the high frequency DCC signal making the motor oscillate. This can cause rapid overheating of the motor, resulting in burn outs. This will happen even if the loco is left standing while other (DCC) locos are being run. Do not leave dc locos on the track. The only time I would run a dc loco on DCC is as a quick test.

DCC locos can (usually) be run on a dc controller but only if the dc controller does NOT use feedback or PWM (pulse width modualtion) or other electronics. Relco or other high frequency track cleaners (eg Gaugemaster) will also kill a DCC decoder. There are settings (CVs) in most decoders to allow or disallow dc working. I believe it is an NMRA requirement that DCC locos can be run on dc.

Different decoders for different locos? Yes. Some locos will need a heavier duty decoder than others. Some will only have room for a small decoder. Heljan locos are known to be heavy current users and need a higher power decoder. Most of the DCC ready locos from Hornby and Bachmann are fairly low current users and so only need a lighter duty decoder. You could use a high power decoder if you could fit it in (higher output decoders can be a bigger than lower powered ones). It's a bit of a balancing act, cost, size, power and what sort of performance you are happy with. There are some users who fit Lenz gold decoders (quite expensive) in every loco they have. Others (like myself) are quite happy with a cheap Hornby or Bachmann decoder in most locos. I've also got a couple of TCS direct plug in decoders. In theory you should test the "stall current" of each and every loco before choosing a decoder to suit. Old Triang locos can be heavy current users and it is best to test each and every one..

DCC friendly. Hmmm. Not really. I don't regard any engine as DCC friendly if it isn't DCC ready. Virtually any loco can be converted, it's just a matter of working out where to fit the decoder, how much time you are prepared to spend doing it and whether it's worth it. Bachmann split chassis locos are best avoided until you have some experience on simpler chassis. You could also hugely devalue some collectors items by fitting a decoder.

Sapphire decoders have not been released yet AFAIK. Use the Hornby R8215 or R8249 or the Bachmann 36-553 (8 pin plug) or 36-554 (21 pin plug).

The idea of DCC is that any NMRA compliant decoder should work with any NMRA compliant controller. The best way of choosing a controller is to try them all (or at least those you can afford). Just because a controller is regarded as "the best", doesn't mean it will suit you. Some people prefer a rotary speed control, for instance and some prefer a push button or joystick. There is also the power output to consider, the number of locos you will be running at the same time, do you want to operate points from the controller or use conventional switches? Do you want to connect it to a PC? You may be able to try different controllers at a model shop or maybe at a local model railway club where you might find someone who would be willing to fit decoders for you at minimal cost, or help you do it yourself.

[KingEdward1st]

Rog, we should put your information perhaps in a 'How to'. There is a lot of information there, which could help a lot of people and it would be a shame for it to be lost when this topic goes to the bottom. PM me and let me know what you think.

Anyway...if you buy a DCC ready loco fitting a chip is quite easy. Remove the plug and insert the chip, but if your loco is not DCC ready your best getting someone to do it for you. A model shop will probaly be happy to do this.

Jake

[SmokeyHugh]

Ok thanks.
Rog, you mention operating points, so I take it that other parts of the layout could in theory be made DCC aswell? I haven't got anything apart from points and signals on my layout, but in theory, if I had a turntable, could that be DCC operated? (That said, I don't know how the turntables actually work in 00 scale...) I know about motorised points, just not how they work, I take it that DCC points are just a fancier version? Is there a point where the track will not work with DCC - I ask becasue quite of few of the points I have are Hornby 1992 edition, and they are different from the newer ones (these seem to slide from one setting to another, the newer snap from one setting to another).
I also belive that its possible to have the trains uncouple via DCC, is it? (I think it's from the un-coupling ramps, not from the actual trains)

If I do get round to DCC fitting anything I have a few ideas in mind. Something I did this morning (I had nothing to do, and my layout needed a clean, the best way to do it was take everything up and re-lay it ), was add a little siding with shed to the side of my station, with a little engine to work as the station pilot - so, if I decide to go DCC, I'll fit this set of points as DCC, along with what ever pilot-engine I use (any of my Dapol pugs or smokey joe) and possibly one of the "big" engines - but seeing as how the majority of my engines are tank engines, I don't see the last part happening. This could be nice to watch, mainly due to the fact that:
1)my reaction times aren't the greatest, by the time I get the points to open for the pilot, the train it's ment to help has gotten to the other side of the track and, 2)a lot of the smaller shunters hornby makes are indcredibly fast (Smokey Joe out running the Mallard on a flat, long stretch of line anyone?)

I have one last question. THis is a slightly stupid one, but its mainly down to the fact I'm still a little confused. If things go wrong with a DCC layout, could you (in theory) end up with head on colisions? The reason why I ask is due to my understanding of how DCC works. My understanding is, that although the current flows through the rails, the decoder and controller change the current flowing to the motor, which in turn changes thr speed and dirction. If you change the wrong points and have multiple engines working at once, could this happen?

Once again, thanks guys
S.H

[tradman]

Last things first, If you use DCC then you can control multiple engines and yes you can have then crash into each other if you are not careful, the emergency stop on the elite comes in useful sometimes. Like you I envisaged difficulty in controlling both engines and point via the control station so elected to join MERG and use their DCC accessory encoder to control accessory decoders, some hornby and some MERG's own. These decoders currently control various types of point motor including peco/hornby- H & M and the older hornby type. The points I use comprise of peco on the main layout with older hornby in the sidings etc. The oldest point I have in over 20 years old, and is steel track. I have in total have three busses around my layout, one is the main DCC control for engines, an accessory bus for points and a control bus using a point to point system, shich is being used to control lights etc arount the layout, it will be expanded to include track occupancy and other features I am looking at. With respect to turntable control it is possible to use the elite and suitable decoder to drive the turntable but I have an idea that with two accessory decoders it is possible to have up to a 16 position automatic turntable, ie set position , press go and it will rotate to position automatically.

Mike